Ryan Englin on Live Like a Leader with John Bates: Why Communication and Expectations Fix Hiring and Retention in the Trades

I went on Live Like a Leader with John Bates to talk about why the trades have a people problem that starts with leadership, not the labor market.

John and I connected through Dr. Sabrina Starling, and the conversation went deep fast. We started with a truth most employers ignore: finding a new job is one of life's most stressful events. Two out of three job seekers never hear back from a company after they apply. Employers complain about getting ghosted by candidates, but who ghosted who first? That question stops people in their tracks every time.

I walked John through how most employers handle interviews the same way people handle bad first dates. "Loved meeting you, we have a few more candidates to talk to, we'll be in touch." Everyone knows what that means. Thanks for playing. And it reveals something deeper. That's conflict avoidance. And if your hiring process runs on conflict avoidance, what does that tell a candidate about your culture?

We talked about the word "culture" and why we don't use it much at Core Matters. It's overused, ambiguous, and means something different to everyone. Instead, we focus on core vision. Where is your company going? Why do we care to go there? How are we going to behave along the way? That framework gives people clarity. It gives them a reason to stay on the bus when things break down. Jim Collins talks about getting the right people on the bus, but his metaphor stops at the leadership team. A bus has a lot more seats. Frontline workers need to be excited about the destination too. When the bus breaks down, people who believe in the destination get off and push. People who don't get off and find another bus.

I shared my own core story with John. I want to make the trades cool again. My dad was an owner-operator who thought entrepreneurship meant freedom. A decade later, the business owned him. He worked 12-hour days, six or seven days a week, carried a brick phone before they were popular. The problem wasn't that he lacked drive. No one ever taught him how to hire and build a team. That gap kept him stuck. And by the time I figured out the answer, he was ready to retire.

John asked me about practical examples. I told him about a client that kept losing entry-level hires after a day or two. These were young people, some coming off couches, some out of school. The company put shovels in their hands for eight hours. Those kids weren't ghosting because they didn't want the job. They weren't calling back because they couldn't get out of bed. The company shifted to ramping physical work gradually and started a mentoring program. Engagement went up. Retention went up. It takes strong, intentional, self-aware leadership to pull that off. But it works.

We hit hard on something I see everywhere. Companies put on a false front during the interview process. One client actually scheduled interviews when the owner's brother wasn't in the office because the brother was toxic. Those new hires still had to work with him. Another client dropped F-bombs during interviews to "test comfort level" but refused to put that reality in the job ad. If you're hiding who you are during the interview and then showing the real version on day one, you're the one who went fake first. Your job ad and your employer brand need to reflect the truth of what it's like to work for you.

I also broke down why employee referral programs fail. Gallup found employees are six times more likely to be engaged if they have a best friend at work. Referrals build that in naturally. But we don't equip our people to have the conversation. And we never incentivize the person taking the actual risk, the friend who has to quit their job, tell their spouse, and walk away from a paycheck. A $250 bonus paid after 90 days does nothing for them. PTO does. Give the referred person something to sell their family on.

The last piece I shared was about the two-week wait between the offer and the start date. Most employers say "See you in two weeks" and disappear. That new hire has to go tell their boss, face a potential counteroffer, and sit with uncertainty for 14 days with zero support. I coach employers to stay close during that gap. Send a text the morning they're telling their boss. Remind them why they made the decision. Coach them through the counteroffer conversation. Have their workspace, logins, and first day ready before they walk in. If someone shows up and you say "we didn't set anything up because we weren't sure you'd come," you just confirmed their worst fear.

This stuff isn't complicated. It's intentional. And it is fixable.

If you liked this conversation, I go deeper on employee experience and the Core Fit Hiring System on Titans of the Trades.