In the conversation
Ryan Englin on Sales POP! Expert Interviews: Transforming Hiring Practices in SMBs and Blue-Collar Industries
Key takeaways
- Most companies don't start recruiting until someone quits or a big job lands. At that point, desperation takes over and the hiring bar drops to 'can fog a mirror.' Treat recruiting as an ongoing marketing activity and build a bench of pre-qualified candidates before you need them.
- People don't leave jobs. They leave people. The number one thing that differentiates an employer is not the work itself. It is the culture, the leadership, and how the company invests in its people. Most companies already do good things but never get credit because they never talk about it.
- Culture must be authentic, not aspirational. One client embraced a passive-aggressive fraternity culture that sounded unhealthy on paper. Once they owned it and recruited for it, retention went through the roof and performance followed. There are people who thrive in every culture as long as it is real.
- Rock stars bomb interviews because they haven't interviewed in years. Superstars crush interviews because they do it all the time. Hiring managers who never get trained default to picking the polished candidate and pass over the steady, reliable person who would stay for a decade.
- Just under 13% of employees say their company did a good job onboarding. One company never showed a new hire where the restroom was on day one. That planted a seed of doubt that grew for six months until she quit. The first day sets the tone for the entire relationship.
- Promoting someone into a new role without onboarding them again is one of the biggest mistakes in management. A promotion means a completely different role, different exposure, and a different relationship with the team. Treat it like a brand new hire.
I sat down with John Golden on Sales POP! Expert Interviews to talk about why hiring is so hard for small and mid-sized businesses and what it actually takes to fix it.
We started where I always start. The reason most companies struggle to hire is not because there aren't good people out there. It's because they wait until they're desperate. A key person leaves, a big job lands, and suddenly the owner is scrambling. At that point, the bar drops to "can they fog a mirror?" Six weeks later, the owner is asking why they made that decision. Every single time.
The fix is a mindset shift. Stop treating recruiting as an HR activity. Start treating it as a marketing activity. When you approach hiring the same way you approach attracting customers, you build a pipeline. We call it the bench. A curated list of pre-qualified people who raised their hand but aren't ready to move yet. When a position opens, you call from the bench instead of throwing money at a job board and praying. That shifts the power. You stop settling.
John asked a great question about communicating why someone would want to join your company. Most owners are fantastic at marketing the product they sell. They are terrible at marketing what it's like to work for them. And here's the thing. Most people don't leave jobs. They leave people. If the person you want to hire has experience, they're already working somewhere. The reason they're open to leaving is not the work itself. It's the leadership, the communication, the culture. So talk about those things. Talk about how you lead, how you invest in your people, how your team actually behaves. That differentiates you more than pay ever will.
We spent a good chunk of time on culture. I told the story about a client with five guys who ran a nine-figure company like a fraternity. Passive-aggressive communication. Razzing each other constantly. I told them I didn't think I could help because it wasn't healthy. They pushed back and said "that's who we are." So we got clear on it, owned it publicly, and put it in their recruiting. Retention went through the roof. Performance improved. Because there are people who thrive in that environment. You just have to be honest about who you are. Authenticity beats a polished facade every time. If what's written on the wall doesn't match what walks down the hall, employees see through it.
John brought up onboarding, and I shared a stat that just under 13.3% of employees say their company did a good job onboarding them. We talked about a company where nobody showed the new hire where the restroom was on day one. Nobody showed her the break room. That planted a seed. "Do they even want me here?" Six months later, she quit. That first day sets the tone. Make it count or watch them quit in their hearts before the first week ends. We teach a structured approach called the 2412 Launch that makes the first 90 days intentional instead of accidental.
One of the biggest points I made on the show is about role clarity. We've been doing a lot of work this year on what we call role packages. You sit down and define acceptable behaviors for the role, what motivates someone in that role, the specific activities required to meet those responsibilities, and how performance will be measured. We've had employees go to tears when they see that level of clarity. Not sad tears. Happy tears. "I've been wanting this for years." That kind of clarity is a retention tool as much as it is a performance tool.
I also talked about the hats worksheet. People on your team wear more than one hat and don't even realize it. Sometimes 30% of their job is a hat that doesn't fit. That 30% drags down the other 70%. When you break it apart, you can find someone who actually fits that 30% and unlock the person who was struggling.
We closed with something I'm passionate about. The difference between rock stars and superstars. Rock stars are the foundation. They've been at two or three jobs their entire life. They don't want to climb the corporate ladder. They want to show up, crush it, and go home. Superstars want the hockey-stick career trajectory. Here's the problem. Superstars interview brilliantly because they do it all the time. Rock stars bomb interviews because they haven't interviewed in years. And companies keep accidentally passing on rock stars and hiring superstars, then wonder why the new hire wants to change everything by day two. When you train your hiring managers to recognize the difference and build a four-stage interview process that tests behavior instead of rehearsed answers, you start landing the people who actually stay.
If you liked this conversation, I go deeper on all of these topics on Titans of the Trades.
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